Open 19:00
Close 21:00
Author David Busenschutt
Signed David Busenschutt
Tally 8

Usage of the building by private individuals, for their own purposes, “for rent”.

It has been proposed that we should both officially record this committee decision, and open the decision up for other/s, subject to suitable guards, as required.

BACKGROUND: The committee were previously approached by Shaun, who asked if he would be able to “store” some of his equipment in the HSBNE building, and what it would cost. We reached an agreement with him on the following:

A - if he maintains his membership (ie $60/month), then just like any other member, his membership entitles him to “use the building”, so long as he doesn't interfere with others, etc.

B - for “private storage” - he asked for 40sqm, and we agreed to this at an additional fee of $40/month. ( a very low fee if compared to commercial rates, due to the fact that it's temporary, and insecure, etc)

FOR DISCUSSION/VOTE:

• Should all Members be entitled to “rent” space for personal/business/private use ( like shaun currently is)?
• Are the conditions under which Shaun is renting the space acceptable ( ie at-own-risk, 30-days-notice-to-leave, $1/sqm, not-interfere-with-members, keept-your-shit-tidy-or-else)?
• Should these be the same condition/s under which all other member/s are entitle to “rent” ? ( assuming we allow it)?
• What should be the process whereby member/s apply to request permission to do this ( and pay for it)? - contact the committee first, before you do anything!
• how might we deal with limited space, and excessive requests to use it for personal use? Do we “cap” total space for “personal” at just a part of the total avail?
• how do we deal with violation/s of the acceptable terms of usage? ( terminate verbal “rental” agreement & give 30 days to remove stuff? )
• Any other Issues or Concerns related to this?

1 - Shaun would like to officially offer the usage of his “large machines” ( the mill and horizontal band saw) to all HSBNE members in exchange for consideration that his monthly “rent” be lowered or removed.

There are a few implication/s to this decision, if we were to go ahead with it, so I'll try to raise some of them here, so we have a place to discuss, etc:

• Membership due/s can not be waived, except as stated in the constitution ( which if I recall is via a committee decision). I do not believe he is asking for that, just for it to be an “in-kind” relationship, so that he doesn't have to pay the on-going cost/s for his private “storage” area ( currently $40/mo, which is in addition to the normal $60/mo membership fee we all pay.).
• Who is responsible if his equipment gets damaged? ( some suggestions include: members pay a deposit to use the equipment; member/s supply their own tooling, as tooling is the most likely thing to be damaged; machine/s be fitted with electronic lock-outs and logs, so we have full knowledge of who used them when, and can track damage; etc )
• Training to use the equipment. Shaun does not want to be involved in the training, or in day-to-day responsibilities we may create by using his equipment, he just wants the equipment to not be damaged, or fixed immediately if it is. We can arrange/use our own system for this?
• Liability in the event of accident, etc, as it's Shaun's equipment. ?

DISCUSSION/VOTE:

Are we (in-principle) interested in getting official on-going access to the mill and bandsaw in exchange for waiving Shaun's $40/month “rent” fee? Assuming Yes to the above: A - Training - The general rule in the HSBNE is that you must be trained ( usually 1-on-1 with someone already familiar with the equipment), or otherwise prove competence before you use any equipment that could be a hazard to your safety or is itself fragile. This is already the rule we use, especially for the Lathe and the HSBNE RepRap. We can continue to apply this rule in general for these machine/s, but see below for other blockers…..

B - Liability - Officially the equipment is Shaun's, so the liability in case of serious accident generally lies with him. To mitigate against this we ( HSBNE and Shaun) would have to either have some form of “waiver” or other paperwork that individual/s would need to sign to show that they are aware of the risks, etc, etc, or alternatively, we might be able to write a “rental agreement” between Shaun and HSBNE that generally transfers the concerns to HSBNE? I'm not sure the best action here, comments, feedback wanted!

Any other Issues or Concerns related to this?

It has been suggested that we should consider formalising the concept of “stations” as a recognised part of the HSBNE infrastructure.

For those not familiar with the idea, here's some possible examples: eg: “PCB manufacture Station” , “SMD Station”, “Anodizing Station”, “3D Printing Station” etc. It's also been suggested that we should encourage user/s who would like to formally document and implement these sorts of proven process/ system with whatever sorts of encouragement HSBNE can offer, perhaps even with a monetary value on completion of a “station” being implemented and working.

DISCUSSION/VOTE:

• Do we HSBNE as a group want to encourage members to document in-house systems and processes such that they are repeatable, thorough, and usable.?

Assuming Yes to the above:

• How do we want to encourage this? ( eg: Money for required parts, member assistance, reward money, etc? )
• How will we require the “stations” to be setup? ( physical space demands, documentation needs, consumables ? )
• Where will the documentation be? ( in a wiki? printed and stuck to a wall? both? )
• How do we “prove” the document is correct? ( have someone else use it without assistance? )
• How (often) is it reviewed, or replaced, or expired?

• David Busenschutt
• Lawrence Dixon
• Travis Howse
• Joel Byrnes
• Joshua Hogendorn
• Luke Hovington
• James Churchill
• Luke Johnston

• Sean McGrade

After much heated and mostly healthy discussion, vote/s were taken on the following:

“Should all members be entitled to “rent” space for their personal/private/business ( ie not HSBNE) usage”.. like Sean currently is? As written originally in the Agenda, this motion was declined All against, zero in favour. However, the group was mostly concerned with the use of the word “entitled” invoking the possibility of excessive use or unusual problems ( and corner cases), and the Agenda item was re-worded slightly to correctly represent the group.

“Should members be permitted to “rent” exclusive space for their personal/private/business ( ie not HSBNE related ) usage, under appropriate conditions as laid out elsewhere, and with the appropriate permission/s requested first?? ( see below) Motion passed All in favour, zero against. Are the conditions under which Shaun is renting the space acceptable terms FYI These conditions are:

• all storage and equipment and etc 100% at-own-risk
• 30 days notice to leave ( by request of the comittee, or a group vote).
• $1/sqm per month ( this condition currently applies to Sean, but was removed from the list for the Vote. )
• not interfere with ( other ) members
• keep your shit tidy or else
• maintain HSBNE membership.

Discussion pointed out that these terms are all solid and likely acceptable, except the pricing $1/sqm per month, which is under renegotiation with Sean. So, a vote was taken, and Motion passed All in favour, zero against. Should these be the same condition/s under which other member/s are permitted to “rent” ? ( assuming we allow it)?

After discussion, the following points/s were recommended to be added :

• User/s must ask permission first ( either on the email list, by publically asking for an agenda item to be added to the next General Meeting) , or by contacting the executive and they will do the same ( executive@hsbne.org ) is acceptable ).
• All “rentals” come up for review approx every 3 months at the next HSBNE general Meeting, and can be terminated without prejudice by agreement of the comitteee, or a vote of the membership.
• For fairness, All “rentals” shall pay the same per-sq-meter fee, such that if one is changed, they all are.

Motion passed All in favour, zero against.

how might we deal with limited space, and excessive requests to use it for personal use? Do we “cap” total space for “personal” at just a part of the total avail? Regarding these question/s, It was decided that since the permission( and any specific additional terms such as the size of a request, etc ) will be granted on a case-by-case basis at future meetings, it is not necessary to decide this now. Motion was declined All against, zero in favour. how do we deal with violation/s of the acceptable terms of usage? It was noted that we already have a dispute resolution methodology in the original HSBNE “Constitution” , and a vote was taken to decide if these were acceptable terms to deal with this situation Motion passed All in favour, zero against.

( Note by the secretary, I have reviewed our “HSBNE Rules” document, and it does not have a dispute resolution process, so I take it that we are referring to the original HSBNE “Constitution” document ( which has one) but which was recently ( as part of the Incorporation) superceeded by the “HSBNE Rules” as our primary governing document. I therefore will re-issue the dispute-resolution process from the earlier document as our current dispute-resolution system, and inset it into a working document for “Additional Admin”. see: http:%%//%%www.hsbne.org/admin/additional-admin )

Due to Sean being unable to attend, thius item was not discussed at this meeting, and will need to be re-raised by Sean for a future meeting.

“Stations”

• Do we HSBNE as a group want to encourage members to document in-house systems and processes such that they are repeatable, thorough, and usable.?

Motion passed All in favour, zero against.

How do we want to encourage this? Inccentives should be: having it! recognition of doing it! Motion passed All in favour, zero against. How will we require the “stations” to be setup? physical space demands: the expectation is that most “stations” will be able to be “packed away” for the most part, and defining storage needs will be a part of the process of documenting a planned station. upfront costs and consumables : the expectation is that defining the cost of the station and its consumables will be one of the first parts of the process of documenting a planned station, and that any upfront and ongoings cost/s that HSBNE will incurr will have to be brought to the group at a general meeting, for approval. Other possible methods exist for managing consumables, for example, the creator of the “station” may prefer to buy the consumables themselves and donate them, and/or a “donations” box or “honesty system” may be used , etc ? Where will the documentation be? At the very least, in the hsbne.org wiki is a minimal requirement. printed and stored with the equipment/consumables is also encouraged. Motion passed All in favour, zero against. How do we “prove” the document is correct? have someone else use it without assistance? Motion passed All in favour, zero against. How (often) is it reviewed, or replaced, or expired? After discussion at the meeting the following additional items were agreed to: Level 1 documentation: = project proposal. for “putting it to the group”. does not need firm $$$ “costings”, but estimates will help. Level 2 Documentation: = grant application” - justifiable estimates of the costings, replacement costs, etc. must be voted on. Levle 3 documenation: = ongoing “living” document for periodic review. Specifying Actual cost/s incurred ( both upfront, and consumables ) and parts sources, etc.

It is reasonable to expect that if you use a station, and break something that is “expensive”, and that can not be attributed to wear-and-tear, then you may be asked to fix it, or pay for it, or pay for part/most of it. All Stations must have a “responsible person” who's job it is to ensure it remains usable, that consumables are upkept, that documentation is accurate, etc. This defaults to the person who “authored” it, untill they publish otherwise on hte list and in the instructions. The instructions must name this person, and their contact details ( eg phone & email ), so they can be notified in the case of issues, etc. All changes to stations ( such as documentation, methodology, systems, etc ) must be “vetted” by the original “author” and/or the current “responsible person”. don't break the documentation. If you are designing a new/better way of doing something, the old system must continue to work until your revisions and documentation are “vetted” and accepted by the author, etc .

• building a “HSBNE community guidlines” document that colates all the decisions and minutes, etc that have been previously made, and make them more easily accessabdle. - everyone likes the idea. Buzz has started a wiki page for htis here: http:%%//%%www.hsbne.org/admin/additional-admin Please edit it, and add more stuff , especially relevant on-going stuff from previous minutes!
• Josh asked for $100 to pay for a “real website” ( one not using google sites). Buzz told him he can't officially ask for financial stuff without giving us a proper agenda item and 5 days notice to all members. It was suggested instead that he make a “proof of concept” to “demo” it to the group, and then re-ask for the money at a future meeting.
• HSBNE / Robot Wars are thinking of having a combined open-day on Dec 10, but would need public liability insurance to be sored out to do it. ( NOTE: we do NOT have public liability insurance at this time ). - Lemming raise this and was keen to “see it sorted”.
• Public Liability Insurance - Officially we will need to vote on the actual $$ amount once we know it ( ie have a relevant and correct quote), but all present felt that if we were able to get public liability insurance for under ~2k/yr, then we should just “go and do it”.